Clustered Dock at Parkes, ACT
Identification history
| Rumex conglomeratus | 10 Mar 2017 | BettyDonWood | ||
| Rumex crispus | 7 Mar 2017 | BettyDonWood | ||
| Rumex conglomeratus | 6 Mar 2017 | JanetRussell |
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10 comments
MichaelBedingfield
wrote:
7 Mar 2017
Sorry to contradict you Betty, but I think Janet is right in this case. The growth habit of the 2 plants is quite different.
BettyDonWood
wrote:
8 Mar 2017
I based my ID on the key to Rumex in Plantnet.
For Rumex conglomeratus it states: Fruiting valves (fruiting bodies) 2.2–3.2 mm long, 1–1.7 mm wide, with callosity large and covering most of valve surface; fruiting pedicel (stalk) 1–2.5 mm long; flower whorls distant and each whorl mostly subtended by a leaf
For Rumex crispus it states: Fruiting valves (fruiting bodies) 3.5–6 mm long and wide, with callosity small and not covering most of valve surface; fruiting pedicel (stalk) 3–7 mm long; flower whorls close together, rarely lowermost subtended by a leaf
Given those descriptions I really do not think this is Rumex conglomeratus.
For Rumex conglomeratus it states: Fruiting valves (fruiting bodies) 2.2–3.2 mm long, 1–1.7 mm wide, with callosity large and covering most of valve surface; fruiting pedicel (stalk) 1–2.5 mm long; flower whorls distant and each whorl mostly subtended by a leaf
For Rumex crispus it states: Fruiting valves (fruiting bodies) 3.5–6 mm long and wide, with callosity small and not covering most of valve surface; fruiting pedicel (stalk) 3–7 mm long; flower whorls close together, rarely lowermost subtended by a leaf
Given those descriptions I really do not think this is Rumex conglomeratus.
MichaelBedingfield
wrote:
8 Mar 2017
I don't properly understand what you have just written, Betty. I'm going by what the plant looks like. When Rumex crispus is dried and withered it looks more like the following one:
http://canberra.naturemapr.org/Community/Sightings/Details/40033
http://canberra.naturemapr.org/Community/Sightings/Details/40033
JanetRussell
wrote:
8 Mar 2017
I have posted a third photo and from what I now understand I think it is a R. crispus because the length of the petiole in R. conglomerata is as long as the leaf. In the photo I think they look shorter than that.
Mike
wrote:
8 Mar 2017
There are some good photos on keyserver.lucidcentral.org which show the winglike projections on the fruit of R. crispus that are not present on R. conglomeratus. Of course it depends a bit on how mature the fruit is.
BettyDonWood
wrote:
8 Mar 2017
When I IDd the sighting mentioned in Michael's comment, I used the key in Flora of NSW volume 1, page 289, which has exactly the same wording as what I quoted from Plantnet. The description in Plantnet of Rumex crispus, is that it is an erect plant. That of Rumex conglomeratus says it is "mostly erect, often branching from below the middle.". In the case of these two species, growth habit cannot differentiate them. It is also hard to differentiate these two species from this photo of the fruiting bodies. They both have a central boss surrounded by a wing, much broader in relation to the boss in the case of Rumex crispus. I based my decision from the key on the fact that the flower whorl is not subtended by a leaf, which it always in is the case of R. conglomeratus, and that the stalks of the fruiting body are longer than the fruiting bodies. From the species description, I noted that the junction obvious in the lowermost left hand fruiting stalk is less than a quarter of the way down the stalk. In C. conglomeratus, this junction is about the middle.
MichaelBedingfield
wrote:
10 Mar 2017
When I said above "what the plant looks like", I was not talking about habit, but everything that is visible. I mean the shape of the plant, the angles and arrangement of the stems, the leaves and their shape, the way the fruits are arranged along the stems and the shape of the fruits themselves.
I this case the main problem I have is with the fruits and their general appearance. Do a Google of “Rumex crispus fruits” and you will see that in all the images the fruits have large and prominent wings.
The wings on the fruits on Janet’s specimen are small and without much shape. This doesn’t happen with Rumex crispus.
There is are pictures of the mature fruits of Rumex conglomeratus at the bottom of the following page:
http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/media/Html/rumex_conglomeratus.htm
They are very much like Janet’s specimen.
I this case the main problem I have is with the fruits and their general appearance. Do a Google of “Rumex crispus fruits” and you will see that in all the images the fruits have large and prominent wings.
The wings on the fruits on Janet’s specimen are small and without much shape. This doesn’t happen with Rumex crispus.
There is are pictures of the mature fruits of Rumex conglomeratus at the bottom of the following page:
http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/media/Html/rumex_conglomeratus.htm
They are very much like Janet’s specimen.
BettyDonWood
wrote:
10 Mar 2017
You are right. The description in Plantnet is confusing when looking at photos. However what convinced me is the series of photos of Rumex crispus in the same database: http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/media/Html/rumex_crispus.htm
MichaelBedingfield
wrote:
10 Mar 2017
It is an excellent website with a good index:
http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/media/Html/index.htm
http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/media/Html/index.htm
Location information
- Coordinates 149.137225-35.289886
- Altitude 458.0m
- Maps Commonwealth & Kings Parks Mount Ainslie to Black Mountain
- Places Parkes, ACT
Sighting information
- 1 - 3 Abundance
- 26 Feb 2017 11:20 AM Recorded on
- JanetRussell Recorded by
-
Collections
Plants Other Wildflowers & Herbs JanetRussell
Additional information
- 30cm to 1 metre Plant height
Species information
- Rumex conglomeratus Scientific name
- Clustered Dock Common name
- Not Sensitive
- Exotic
- Minor weed or pest
- Up to 827m Recorded at altitude
- Machine learning
-
In flower
- External link More information
Record quality
- Images or audio
- More than one media file
- Verified by an expert moderator
- Nearby sighting(s) of same species
- GPS evidence of location
- Description
- Additional attributes
