Caladenia atrovespa
Green-comb Spider Orchid at Karabar, NSW
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| Caladenia atrovespa | TonyWood | 20 Oct 2016 | |
| Caladenia atrovespa | TonyWood | 20 Oct 2016 | |
| Caladenia tentaculata | roachie | 20 Oct 2016 |
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Significant sighting
6 comments
21 Oct 2016
I have confirmed this as C. atrovespa because this is the currently accepted name for the local Green-comb Spider Orchid, although recognising that it is very closely related to C. tentaculata. For a lot of the Spider orchids the only way of separating them is by the pollinator!
21 Oct 2016
And is it possible that natural selection could lead the same species to attract different pollinators due in different areas?
21 Oct 2016
Matt, that's a question that should be put to someone more knowledeable. You could ask Tobias.
21 Oct 2016
I could have added, at what stage does natural selection result in a new species, but as I said I'm not an expert.
21 Oct 2016
Ah Tony. If I had time I would sit and watch for pollinators. Thank you for your ids and your comments. I'm learning a lot. 😊
24 Oct 2016
This may well be Caladenia atrovespa - I think ON AVERAGE they have longer petals and sepals but there is much overlap in most traits with Caladenia phaeoclavia. They are definitely different species, they emit different chemical scents and thereby attract different wasp pollinators.
Matt - natural selection can definitely lead to different populations evolving different so-called semiochemicals and thereby being pollinated by different pollinators. This process can even happen within orchid populations.
As to when things are considered separate species, that is an old and tricky question. Usually species are considered distinct when there is no gene flow between them i.e. there is generally no hybridisation. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but the sexually deceptive spider orchids have extremely strong pre-pollinating barriers (i.e. pollen from C. atrovespa never ends up on C. phaeoclavia plants, because they use two very distinct pollinators).
As far as I know so far, there is no way to definitively tell C. atrovespa from C. phaeoclavia, apart from to see which pollinator they attract - not very helpful I know!
Matt - natural selection can definitely lead to different populations evolving different so-called semiochemicals and thereby being pollinated by different pollinators. This process can even happen within orchid populations.
As to when things are considered separate species, that is an old and tricky question. Usually species are considered distinct when there is no gene flow between them i.e. there is generally no hybridisation. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but the sexually deceptive spider orchids have extremely strong pre-pollinating barriers (i.e. pollen from C. atrovespa never ends up on C. phaeoclavia plants, because they use two very distinct pollinators).
As far as I know so far, there is no way to definitively tell C. atrovespa from C. phaeoclavia, apart from to see which pollinator they attract - not very helpful I know!
Location information
- Maps Mount Jerrabomberra Mount Jerrabomberra QP
- Places Karabar, NSW
Sighting information
- At least 1 Abundance
- roachie Recorded by
Collections
Species information
- Caladenia atrovespa Scientific name
- Green-comb Spider Orchid Common name
- Sensitive
- Rare or uncommon native
- Non-invasive or negligible
- Up to 1018.1m Recorded at altitude
- External link More information
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Synonyms
Arachnorchis atrovespa
Seasonal activity
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In flower
JFMAMJJASOND
Record quality
Quality score
2 / 7
- Images or audio
- Verified by an expert moderator
- More than one media file
- Nearby sighting(s) of same species
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