confer with alpine trigger-plant at Dry Plain, NSW
Identification history
| Stylidium cf. montanum | 12 Dec 2024 | JasonPStewartNMsnc2016 | ||
| Stylidium cf. montanum | 12 Dec 2024 | JasonPStewartNMsnc2016 | ||
| Stylidium montanum | 11 Dec 2024 | Tapirlord | ||
| Stylidium graminifolium | 5 Jun 2023 | Tapirlord | ||
| Stylidium graminifolium | 5 Jun 2023 | AndyRoo |
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User's notes
GPSed. Most appeared to around the 30cm in height, although some were taller.
13 comments
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
8 Dec 2024
Reckon *Stylidium montanum* as well based on these inflorescences, but leaves i could not see in these three photographs .
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
9 Dec 2024
Inflorescences in many aspects :
Please refer to information i have added in to these species pages here : Stylidium montanum
Quotation:
"
...
Leaves linear to narrowly oblanceolate, greater than 3 mm wide, pale to dark green, serrations absent or towards apex only, lamina continuous over midrib and leaves not bifurrowed; flowers pink to deep magenta – 2
2. Leaves 4–15 cm long, pale to mid-green, widely spreading to suberect; scape fine (< 2 mm wide), glabrous or glabrescent below lowest flowers; flowers 10–30; in water-retentive, peaty soils of montane to subalpine areas at high altitudes – S. montanum
...
" .
Please refer to information i have added in to these species pages here : Stylidium montanum
Quotation:
"
...
Leaves linear to narrowly oblanceolate, greater than 3 mm wide, pale to dark green, serrations absent or towards apex only, lamina continuous over midrib and leaves not bifurrowed; flowers pink to deep magenta – 2
2. Leaves 4–15 cm long, pale to mid-green, widely spreading to suberect; scape fine (< 2 mm wide), glabrous or glabrescent below lowest flowers; flowers 10–30; in water-retentive, peaty soils of montane to subalpine areas at high altitudes – S. montanum
...
" .
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
10 Dec 2024
In addition please refer to your sighting here : 4624950 .
AndyRoo
wrote:
10 Dec 2024
Thanks Jason. I've added the only other pic from that sighting plus a further cropped version of it which better captures the the leaves. If you zoom in hopefully you can make them out - best I can do. The Stylidium leaves, amongst all the other leaves of the other plant species, appear to be more erect than spreading and have a "V" cross-section. Regarding your info I wouldn't describe the soils for this and the other sightings at Top Hut TSR as being in "... in water-retentive, peaty soils..." but I'm no expert and could well be wrong about this.
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
10 Dec 2024
Excellent. Thank you for the added photographs and some clarifying about the soils .
Please may you give us all in your own words your description of these soils (no need for expert terminology) ?
Some soils of interesting else kind i wonder ? – that perhaps is neither of these two extremes : " ... in siliceous sands and well-drained soils ... " ... ... ... " ... in water-retentive, peaty soils ... " ?
Please may you give us all in your own words your description of these soils (no need for expert terminology) ?
Some soils of interesting else kind i wonder ? – that perhaps is neither of these two extremes : " ... in siliceous sands and well-drained soils ... " ... ... ... " ... in water-retentive, peaty soils ... " ?
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
11 Dec 2024
Go for it Ciaran @TapirLord !
Seriously in pro. botany ways, i label this " Stylidium cf. montanum (Dry Plain area) "
according to taxa concepts in Elisa Raulings and Pauline Y. Ladiges (2001) and subsequent clarifications by Juliet Wege (2009, 2017) – see here : Stylidium montanum .
Seriously in pro. botany ways, i label this " Stylidium cf. montanum (Dry Plain area) "
according to taxa concepts in Elisa Raulings and Pauline Y. Ladiges (2001) and subsequent clarifications by Juliet Wege (2009, 2017) – see here : Stylidium montanum .
AndyRoo
wrote:
12 Dec 2024
Jason, had to go a do some digging (pardon the pun!) for info re soils, so sorry no succinct reply:
In our (Friends of Grasslands) conservation mgt lease application for Top Hut TSR described as “…Largely on skeletal soils on a rocky substrate…” – see landscape, close up and profile pics in my sightings for (a) the west/sth paddock (https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4496716, https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4499862, https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4498291, https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4485359, Leucochrysum albicans subsp. tricolor (Hoary Sunray)), and (b) east/nth paddock (Leucochrysum albicans subsp. tricolor (Hoary Sunray)).
The NSW Mitchell Landscapes mapping for the landscape in which this site is located describes it as “Jbv (Jindabyne Plains) Wide open valleys and plains at a general elevation of 800 to 900m with surrounding low ranges and rounded peaks to 1100m on massive Silurian-Devonian granite and granodiorite. Shallow gravelly loams on slopes, extensive red and yellow texture-contrast soils on slopes, two or three terraces marginal to the main streams with dark coloured gritty uniform loams and clays in alluvium….”. However, based on the reference to a meta-sedimentary landscape by a Local Land Services NSW officer, at a recent field day at this site, the following Mitchell Landscape description may be more applicable “Mbs (Monaro Plains Meta-sediments) Low block faulted ranges on Ordovician quartzite, phyllite, mudstone, slate and schist, general elevation 1000 to 1200m, 500 to 900mm rainfall. Shallow stony brown structured loam as uniform or gradational profiles. .....”.
In our (Friends of Grasslands) conservation mgt lease application for Top Hut TSR described as “…Largely on skeletal soils on a rocky substrate…” – see landscape, close up and profile pics in my sightings for (a) the west/sth paddock (https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4496716, https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4499862, https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4498291, https://canberra.naturemapr.org/sightings/4485359, Leucochrysum albicans subsp. tricolor (Hoary Sunray)), and (b) east/nth paddock (Leucochrysum albicans subsp. tricolor (Hoary Sunray)).
The NSW Mitchell Landscapes mapping for the landscape in which this site is located describes it as “Jbv (Jindabyne Plains) Wide open valleys and plains at a general elevation of 800 to 900m with surrounding low ranges and rounded peaks to 1100m on massive Silurian-Devonian granite and granodiorite. Shallow gravelly loams on slopes, extensive red and yellow texture-contrast soils on slopes, two or three terraces marginal to the main streams with dark coloured gritty uniform loams and clays in alluvium….”. However, based on the reference to a meta-sedimentary landscape by a Local Land Services NSW officer, at a recent field day at this site, the following Mitchell Landscape description may be more applicable “Mbs (Monaro Plains Meta-sediments) Low block faulted ranges on Ordovician quartzite, phyllite, mudstone, slate and schist, general elevation 1000 to 1200m, 500 to 900mm rainfall. Shallow stony brown structured loam as uniform or gradational profiles. .....”.
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
12 Dec 2024
You're right ! – no worries from me .
Excellent information quality . Thank you for the work of sharing this with me, and all of us reading.
Now back over to me to re-check the Stylidium here and make sense of all the situation, if possible .
Excellent information quality . Thank you for the work of sharing this with me, and all of us reading.
Now back over to me to re-check the Stylidium here and make sense of all the situation, if possible .
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
12 Dec 2024
Well well !
First responses .
This area's population having features shown in these photographs plausibly may in the future get described as a new taxon ie. subspecies or species .
I suggest get fresh (not dried) whole plant (or three) including roots, leaves and inflorescences to the National herbarium in Canberra . If you need a collection permit then simplest and quickest to ask somebody who has one already to collect with you as the primary collector and you as the secondary collector. Eg. @KenT i have communicated with here in NatureMapr .
From published botanical diagnostic features and descriptions of the types' specimens,
these shown plants *do not* entirely match the type specimens of:
• most obviously not matching Stylidium armeria (even if this species may grow in this soil and habitat as it grows widespread in a diverse variety of habitats from sea level to the alps) .
• clearly not matching the strict sense of Stylidium graminifolium morphology (or habitat) .
• not clearly nor full matching, yet these photographs' shown diagnostic features come closer to the published descriptions of the diagnostic features of Stylidium montanum than the above two IMHO.
Yet the scapes appear wider diameter, the flowers more numerous and the leaves' v–shape with flat blades either side of the v-shape bottom do not really match any of these three spp. in the strict sense . And these photographs show the leaves' v-shape undersides mostly with no prominent midrib .
Please read the further information on the diagnostic features of these three published species
– as i linked to in the species pages here : Stylidium montanum .
Of course, i am happy to send you the cited scholarly botanical publications as PDF .
First responses .
This area's population having features shown in these photographs plausibly may in the future get described as a new taxon ie. subspecies or species .
I suggest get fresh (not dried) whole plant (or three) including roots, leaves and inflorescences to the National herbarium in Canberra . If you need a collection permit then simplest and quickest to ask somebody who has one already to collect with you as the primary collector and you as the secondary collector. Eg. @KenT i have communicated with here in NatureMapr .
From published botanical diagnostic features and descriptions of the types' specimens,
these shown plants *do not* entirely match the type specimens of:
• most obviously not matching Stylidium armeria (even if this species may grow in this soil and habitat as it grows widespread in a diverse variety of habitats from sea level to the alps) .
• clearly not matching the strict sense of Stylidium graminifolium morphology (or habitat) .
• not clearly nor full matching, yet these photographs' shown diagnostic features come closer to the published descriptions of the diagnostic features of Stylidium montanum than the above two IMHO.
Yet the scapes appear wider diameter, the flowers more numerous and the leaves' v–shape with flat blades either side of the v-shape bottom do not really match any of these three spp. in the strict sense . And these photographs show the leaves' v-shape undersides mostly with no prominent midrib .
Please read the further information on the diagnostic features of these three published species
– as i linked to in the species pages here : Stylidium montanum .
Of course, i am happy to send you the cited scholarly botanical publications as PDF .
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
12 Dec 2024
Again repeating myself from my comment above :
Seriously in pro. botany ways, i label this " Stylidium cf. montanum (Dry Plain area) "
according to taxa concepts in Elisa Raulings and Pauline Y. Ladiges (2001) and subsequent clarifications by Juliet Wege (2009, 2017) .
(For people unfamiliar: cf. means : confer with ) .
Seriously in pro. botany ways, i label this " Stylidium cf. montanum (Dry Plain area) "
according to taxa concepts in Elisa Raulings and Pauline Y. Ladiges (2001) and subsequent clarifications by Juliet Wege (2009, 2017) .
(For people unfamiliar: cf. means : confer with ) .
JasonPStewartNMsnc2016
wrote:
12 Dec 2024
@AndyRoo there we go ! I've done the bold step of making this name in NatureMapr: Stylidium cf montanum based on the references cited its page here: Stylidium cf. montanum .
AndyRoo
wrote:
12 Dec 2024
Well what an adventure so far! I had no idea that what I assumed would be a straightforward ID of my most recent (11/12/23) Stylidium sighting (4624950) would turn out to be a new species for this site and possibly a new species altogether. I'm honoured by the attention you are giving my various Stylidium sightings at this site. Re your request about getting a fresh sample of a whole plant for the National Herbarium I'll discuss it with my Friends of Grasslands colleagues here in Canberra who are across this process and have ANH contacts. I'm not sure when our next weed control working bee at this site will occur - it might not be until some time in February. So getting a fresh sample may not be on the cards this summer. However, getting a physical sample (or a higher quality set of diagnostic pics) with spent flowers/fruit capsules and possibly live leaves might be the go!?
Location information
- Coordinates 148.913552-36.113481
- Altitude 1134.1m
- Maps Top Hut TSR
- Places Dry Plain, NSW
Sighting information
- 101 - 1,000 Abundance
- 6 Dec 2020 10:40 AM Recorded on
- AndyRoo Recorded by
-
Collections
Stylidium graminifolium sl–ss, S. armeria, S. montanum, S. productum ... studies and IDs Other Wildflowers & Herbs Plants AndyRoo Canberra & Southern Tablelands NatureMapr
Additional information
- 10cm to 30cm Plant height
- True In flower
Species information
- Stylidium cf. montanum Scientific name
- confer with alpine trigger-plant Common name
- Not Sensitive
- Local native
- Non-invasive or negligible
- Up to 1163m Recorded at altitude
- Machine learning
-
In flower
- External link More information
Record quality
- Images or audio
- More than one media file
- Verified by an expert moderator
- Nearby sighting(s) of same species
- GPS evidence of location
- Description
- Additional attributes
